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If we can get a monkey to climb up the Atlas tower we could put a node up on the tower. As it appears they are self-powered with no cable coming down it should be a simple install.
As for the EOC north tower, next time the county IT puts something up on the tower we could hand them a node to put up while they are up there.
Charles WA5VHU
Charles,
I have been intending to drop you and Cindy a note to ask you to do something for me for this exercise and your post affords me the opportunity to just do it publicly. I need some people to do a little bit of passive scouting. Tomorrow I am taking Kathy to an appointment in Paris. When I drop her off I am going to drive the full circle of the loop and look for anything with any elevation at all. Specifically I am hoping to see grain elevators, Ready Mix plants, whatever, at locations visible from the loop and hopefully outside of the loop. I will take pictures, get lat/long info for each and the name and address of the place if it is easy to determine. The names and addresses will be used later for researching who should get a targeted letter from us asking to put one of the devices at their location. And honestly, up on a tower makes it hard to service/replace, so I am hoping for some places that are a bit more accessible. Even just on a leg of a tower 10′ off the ground is fine for this exercise, so if you want to take a casual look at both spots and see if a railing or easy to reach spot is available, I want to avoid having to hire a tower climber for any of this .
What you and Cindy could do would be to just keep your eyes open on your way up from your southerly residence. When you are driving back and forth to Paris if you could try and do the same thing, no contact with anyone required, just make a list of the details above, that would be helpful. And I don’t need 100% accuracy on the lat/long, just close for me to plug into the model so we can see what it does for mesh coverage if we added a node there. Do either of you have an iPhone? If you do it has a compass built into it and on that page it gives lat/long details. Here is what it looks like:
Cliff, you could do the same thing going back and forth to Detroit, that would be great. I’ll be recruiting others to do it their direction. Kathy and I generally go into Paris via Tigertown and Hopewell (from the northwest) so I’ll scout that direction. If anyone north and west/southwest (George?) wants to volunteer, that would be helpful. As far south as you and Cindy are we probably need 3-5 places to start with. That will be my goal. I want to say that I will initially be looking for locations that are +/- 5 miles from each other. I will model the locations at 3 meters (9-10 feet) and see what that looks like and then we can add filler nodes as needed, reduce distances for node placement, etc.
The lat/long is the most important piece for initial modeling. If people take a picture and try and secure details like the name and address of whatever is tied to the spot, that would be helpful. But so long as you can get back to the place later to get those added details, the lat/long is really the important piece. Oh, and Charles, to that end if you could email me the lat/long of Atlas and the north EOC locations, I can plug them in right away. For OPSEC reasons since both are collocated with critical infrastructure let’s keep those details in email and not a forum post.
73
Phillip Beall (W5EBC)
All,
I decided that I wanted to visualize what 50 miles of concentric circles, each at 5 miles, would look like. Here is the result:
This is a static image. If you want to play with the scale and granularity to see where you are, the link to the mapping product is here. I used the mapdevelopers.com website to draw it. I found that online tool to be the simplest available to do what I wanted, quickly and easily.
73
Phillip Beall (W5EBC)
All,
I had an ELCROW ThinkNode M6 ordered from Amazon for Thursday delivery. A few minutes ago I went looking at the device listing to get power numbers for a mapping simulation I am doing. While there I spotted this buried deeply in the fine print: “Note: This version does not support Meshtastic firmware.” Jeez, they use the same model number for two different versions, one is Meshtastic and the other is not. I have just gone and updated the links throughout this thread and they all should now only point to the Meshtastic version. If you are going to buy one, please make sure it is the Meshtastic version. My apologies if anyone else ordered the wrong one too. I was able to get the order cancelled on mine and ordered the correct one and it will also get here on Thursday. The link to the correct ELECROW ThinkNode M6 Meshtastic is here. It is $99.99.
73
Phillip Beall (W5EBC)
The issue I see with putting these units at very high locations is maintenance of the units. due to the loss of signal over long runs of coax the radio will have to be mounted with the antenna, battery, and solar panel. If there is an issue that has to be addressed, and i am sure there will be plenty, someone will have to climb to get to them. I think this is a huge issue putting them where they are not easily accessed.
Cliff,
I am modeling them at 3 meters. I posted that on page one of the thread:
As time allows, I’ll start modeling where Club members live to figure out optimal node placement — minimizing the number needed while maximizing coverage. I’ll probably run most of these at 3 meters (10 feet) just to keep it realistic. Of course, if anyone can go higher than 10 feet, even better!
I 100% agree with/validate your concern, elevation is nearly impossible. And you can get too many hops if you are over saturated. But my thinking is that if I can get all the lat/longs into a map modeling package and see what kind of coverage we might expect; if we can get a bunch of them at 3 meters (9-10 feet) that is a lot more doable. If – IF – we can find some places with elevation, great. But access, maintainability, etc., are increasingly hard once you are more than 10′ off the ground. In any case, if we can’t get elevation then we model what is doable. My biggest problem is that the three mapping packages I have so far worked with have sucked beyond belief. These people have no idea what they are doing for front-end users. Typical of a lot of website designs, especially websites for outfits that don’t have the budget of a Bass Pro Shops website; goober-heads that don’t think like normal people code a lot of them and it makes it torture for the end user. 😒😎
73
Phillip Beall (W5EBC)
Three meters is nice if there are a whole bunch of nodes everywhere.
I ran coverage plots from Jerry WA5KZA’s backyard tower using https://www.ve2dbe.com/english1.html
The first plot is at 10 feet, the second is at 70 feet. It looks like 10 feet might cover most of Paris inside the loop. At 70 feet it looks like it might cover my house in Cooper.
Until we get lots of nodes on the air I think we need height to cover the Greater Area.
Phillip, how are you going to connect to the folks in Paris and Bonham?
How am I going to connect with the folks in Paris and Commerce?
Just asking for a fellow LID.
73,
Charles WA5VHU
Charles,
I covered all or almost all of the items in your post in previous posts. Please reread them and give me a call if there is anything missing.
The “put stuff up high fairy” hasn’t existed for our Club since I have been involved, so I am going for more nodes. If we get lucky and get some “highish” spots, great. I have some people back-channel that may have some options for us, but all of this will take time. In the meantime, surveying for suitable spots and having myself, Murphy, Leath and a few others picking the devices up and exploring what they will do, combined with mapping to confirm the distribution plan I am thinking we need; it’s coming together.
I am going to send you some lat/longs and see if you can model them for me. I am having no luck with any of the commercial tools I was trying yesterday. One promising one had an input that looked like the one below. I thought “YAY! Finally! Something I can plug lat/longs into and have it map what I need. No, the site is just bad. Really bad. So I could use your help there.
73
Phillip Beall (W5EBC)
All,
Talking with Charles at the Texarkana mini-fest yesterday, he is buried trying to get a new tower up. He hasn’t been able to model the lat/longs we have developed and I am sensitive to that. Being buried and not having enough time. So, if anyone else wants to try it please drop me a note or call me and we can point you to the site to generate the map.
At the Texarkana mini-fest Cliff periodically took his Meshtastic handheld out and looked at the numbers. I think he said he saw six nodes. He successfully texted a couple of them as a test.
When I left the mini-fest I went to Paris and took the opportunity to drive the full loop and do a survey. Initial modeling informs me that with a node at the Lamar County Courthouse and a very few sprinkled at Club member homes inside the loop, we will have the loop interior covered. My next ring would ideally be places literally just outside of the loop, circling the whole city.
I don’t know what some of the places are (who owns them, the specific address, etc.), but I took pictures from the loop and got reasonably close to get a lat/long for plugging into the model. Generally, the places (starting at Home Depot and going west) were Home 2 Suites by Hilton (4-5 stories), Paris Regional Medical Center (4-5 stories), Campbell Soup, Drake Construction (2-3 stories), We Pack Logistics (2-story tall warehouse), Casey’s (gas station/convenience store, tall one-story building and covered pumps with the covers being probably 25′ high), VISTRA Lamar Power Plant, RK Hall (looks like a Ready Mix plant), Paris High School (Inside the loop, but only maybe 300′ from the loop and that area is pretty sparse. The centerpiece of the building is like 3-4 stories high.), two structures that look like maybe they are Ready Mix plants (one with a Cedarapids sign and the other with ASTEC painted on their structure), Covenant Christian Church (not terribly tall, but they have light standards in the parking lot that Kathy and my 28′ extension ladder would easily work with and that area is also sparse). As I did the drive I also noticed what are probably City of Paris, or TXDOT, lights. Those dudes are probably 50’+ tall, maybe 100′, and the kind where the lights can be raised and lowered. If we don’t have good modeling after we plug all these others in, those things would be a game changer if we could get the owner to have their crews put a node on one or more of those. I will include some pictures:
Like I said, we could use someone to help with inputting lat/longs so we can generate a propagation model of the locations under consideration. If you are willing to spend some time helping us with that, please get in touch with me.
73
Phillip Beall (W5EBC)
All,
Matthew Murphy (KF5NRU) and I are running some parallel processes on the ThinkNode M6. He is on Android and I am on iOS. The apps look completely different from each other, so we are having to be careful to read each others notes carefully. He just took off from the house, but shot me some comments that he wanted me to post up on this thread to give you something more to chew on.
He specifically wanted me to let the group know that he has an active and operating node at 30 feet elevation on his tower in Reno. He encourages that if anyone has one of these devices they can try to connect. His node should show up as “big mind m6“.
His first 72 hours of airtime for his 30 foot beta test is showing promising results. It just sits there and charges and stays connected and outruns it’s battery draw using the built in solar panel. And he has been torture testing it, constantly hammering it with messages just to give it some airtime and try to simulate real world EMCOMM traffic. Real world range as measured by GPS is 3 to as much as 5 miles. He is testing from various distances and looking at terrain and topography and measuring his real world range results while holding the handheld unit chest high.
If anyone has any questions please text or email either of us.
73
Phillip Beall (W5EBC)
All,
I have had a couple of people ask me for a detailed explanation for how and why a Meshtastic/LoRa mesh network would be beneficial to the community and how RRVARC might employ it to leverage our EmComms. A year ago I had never heard of it. Then a couple of guys mentioned it at recent Club meetings. A few weeks ago I dove into it and was impressed at its potential, so, over coffee this morning, I asked Grok to build me three scenarios where RRVARC could leverage a robust Meshtastic/LoRa mesh network for EmComms. I thought the analysis was good enough that I wanted to pass it along to all of you.
Some may ask “What is Grok and why do I care what it thinks?” Grok is Elon Musk’s Artificial Intelligence (AI) effort. Think of it as Google on steroids (Google has their own AI effort underway.) and it employs “machine learning”. In other words, it is constantly scouring the Internet for data it can use to develop intelligent information for those that use it, and it doesn’t need humans to tell it how to continue to get smarter. Some worry that AI may take their job while others worry AI will be the end of mankind. See Something Big is Happening if you want one experts opinion on the matter and recent developments. Depending on your age the first concern is legitimate. AI is eliminating a lot, I mean a lot, of junior partner jobs at law firms. That’s how good it is. And while it may end mankind, think Hal in the 1968 production 2001: A Space Odyssey (Can you believe that it came out in 1968?) and the Terminator series of movies where the AI Skynet is killing humankind; I am not going to lay awake at night worrying about something I have zero control over. But, I will use AI to advance the goals of our great Club. I am also starting to use it to evaluate blood tests and other medical results and diagnoses. There is where AI is going to shine. We are going to see some great medical breakthroughs in the next 5-10 years…but I digress.
I asked Grok:
Generate a real world scenario where my ham radio club, Red River Valley Amateur Radio Club (www.rrvarc.org), might employ a Meshtastic network for an emergency. We are putting quite a bit of energy into a regional LoRa network and I would like 1-3 scenarios showing how it might be used.
The answer is below my sig line. Was it exhaustive? No, I even added some comments to it. But, overall it was not a bad first stab at three scenarios and it gives us a logical reply to anyone else who asks.
73
Phillip Beall (W5EBC)
https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg_99d9753f-ef4c-444b-a62d-6bff1b536e72
Here are three realistic scenarios where the Red River Valley Amateur Radio Club (RRVARC) could deploy its regional Meshtastic/LoRa network during emergencies. These leverage the mesh network’s strengths: off-grid operation, low power use, text messaging, GPS location sharing, and resilience when cellular, internet, and even some ham repeaters fail due to power outages or infrastructure damage.
Scenario 1: Major Tornado Outbreak (Spring Severe Weather)
A powerful spring storm system moves through northeast Texas and southern Oklahoma, spawning multiple tornadoes similar to the historic 1979 Red River Valley outbreak. Several communities around Paris, TX, including rural areas in Lamar, Delta, and Red River counties, suffer direct hits. Power is knocked out across wide areas, cell towers are damaged or overloaded, and roads are blocked by debris.How Meshtastic is used:
– RRVARC members and trained spotters deploy portable Meshtastic nodes (e.g., solar-powered T-Beams or Heltec devices) at fixed positions like club repeaters, EOC sites, fire stations, and high-ground locations to create a resilient backbone mesh.
– Ground teams and mobile operators use handheld or vehicle-mounted nodes to send damage assessments, injury reports, and GPS coordinates of trapped individuals or blocked roads back to the Paris EOC or a central net control station.
– The mesh allows “store-and-forward” messaging so information hops across nodes even if some areas lose direct line-of-sight.
– Integration with traditional ham radio: Meshtastic data is relayed via voice on VHF/UHF nets (like your 146.76 repeater or NCTC system) (Or simplex if repeaters are down. – Phillip) for broader coordination with ARES or county Emergency Management.Value: Provides rapid, low-bandwidth situational awareness in the critical first hours when official channels are overwhelmed, helping prioritize search-and-rescue.
Scenario 2: Widespread Flooding and River Cresting (Red River or Tributaries)
Heavy prolonged rainfall causes the Red River and local creeks to flood, isolating rural farms, cutting off low-water crossings, and forcing evacuations. Power outages last days in low-lying areas, and cellular service becomes spotty as towers lose backup power.How Meshtastic is used:
– Pre-deployed LoRa nodes along key routes and at community shelters create a regional network covering Paris and surrounding towns.
– Residents with Meshtastic devices (distributed or loaned by the club during preparedness events) send status updates like “Family of 4 safe at home, 3 ft water in yard” or requests for supplies.
– Volunteer check-in teams use the network for welfare checks on vulnerable populations (elderly, disabled) in flooded zones without needing to risk high-water vehicle travel for every contact.
– Location sharing helps coordinate boat or high-water vehicle rescues by pinpointing exact positions.Value: Acts as a lightweight, battery-efficient “digital welfare net” that complements ham voice traffic, especially useful for non-hams in the community who can use simple Meshtastic apps on their phones via Bluetooth. (Cellular service for the phone is not necessary, it is a Bluetooth connection from the smart phone to the Meshtastic device. The phone us used as a front-end for the person, the Meshtastic device does the data transmission and reception. – Phillip)
Scenario 3: Extended Winter Storm / Ice Storm with Grid Failure
A severe ice storm coats power lines and trees, causing widespread, multi-day blackouts. Roads become treacherous, and communication infrastructure suffers from tower icing or generator fuel shortages. This is common in the Red River Valley during winter.How Meshtastic is used:
– The club’s regional LoRa network (with elevated, solar-maintained nodes) stays operational due to ultra-low power draw.
– Meshtastic serves as a primary or backup channel for coordinating resource distribution: requests for generators, food, water, or medical needs from neighborhood “node captains.”
– Hospital and shelter operators use it for inter-agency updates when landlines and cells are down.
– Club members run a structured Meshtastic “net” with scheduled check-ins, sharing weather observations or road conditions that feed into official reports.Value: Long battery life (days/weeks on small batteries or solar) makes it ideal for prolonged outages where traditional ham gear might exhaust limited generator power or require more active operation. (Source: Meshtastic for Beginners: My Honest Guide to Off-Grid Text Messaging and Emergency Communication)
These scenarios position RRVARC as a leader in hybrid emergency comms—combining proven ham infrastructure with modern, accessible Meshtastic tech. The network lowers the barrier for community participation (no license needed for basic use) while giving licensed operators tools to integrate with ARES and county EM.
To make these effective, the club could run regular drills, map node coverage, and partner with local emergency management. Would you like me to expand any scenario with sample message flows, suggested hardware placements, or integration ideas with your existing repeaters?
LILYGO T-DECK Plus Frequency Settings & Allowable Bands (US 915 MHz)
I went to breakfast at That Place Downtown yesterday (Saturday). George Haneke (NV7Z) and Randy Holland (N5DDS) met me and much of our breakfast discussion was on the recent interest in Meshtastic. I had taken our LILYGO T-DECK Plus device with me and looking at at it’s settings, and knowing the nonlicensed frequency is 915 MHz, I was a little perplexed with some of the settings I found. Dr. Holland and I puzzled over it, I made a change and promptly bricked the unit. 🤣😂 When I got home I reflashed it and all is well, then I did some further review of things. 😎👍🏼
There is a slider that changes to things like LONG SLOW. Each one has a slightly different frequency, like 915.xxx. I wondered “What are the allowable frequencies?”
After digging into the Meshtastic documentation and FCC rules, here’s what I found:
Allowable Frequency Range (US / North America)
The LILYGO T-DECK Plus (915 MHz version with SX1262 LoRa module) operates in the 902–928 MHz ISM band. This is the standard unlicensed band for Meshtastic/LoRa devices in the US under FCC Part 15 rules. All of the preset slider options stay safely within this range.The Slider (Modem Presets)
The slider options like Long Slow, Long Fast, Medium Slow, etc., are Meshtastic modem presets. They don’t just change the center frequency slightly — they adjust key LoRa parameters for different range/speed trade-offs:
– Bandwidth (e.g., 31.25 kHz up to 500 kHz)
– Spreading Factor (SF7–SF12)
– Coding RateUntil yesterday I didn’t know any of that.
Meshtastic then uses a channel hashing algorithm based on the chosen preset and your Frequency Slot (0–n) to pick a specific center frequency like 915.xxx MHz. For example:
– LongFast (a very common default) often lands around 906–915+ MHz depending on the slot. There are ~100+ available slots in the US LongFast configuration.
– Slower presets (LongSlow, etc.) use narrower bandwidth and higher spreading factors for better range at the cost of lower data rates.You can view or manually adjust the exact frequency and slot in the Meshtastic app (Android/iOS/web) or via the device’s web interface.
Recommendations for Our Group
– Set Region = US in the app. This enforces legal channels, power limits, and duty cycle rules.
– Start with LongFast for a good balance unless you need maximum range (then try LongSlow).
– Make sure your antenna is tuned for 915 MHz — a better antenna might make a big difference. Cliff Leath (KI5OPP) is experimenting with an 8db gain antenna. We will see what his experience is.
– Power is limited to +30 dBm (1W) ERP for unlicensed use, but most nodes run lower for battery life.Legality Note
As long as we stay in the 902–928 MHz band with reasonable power and no interference, this is fully legal for unlicensed Meshtastic use (no ham license required, and encryption is allowed). For higher power or other bands we could explore licensed amateur radio operation on the overlapping 33 cm band.If anyone else is setting up T-Deck Plus units, what preset and slot are you using? I don’t want to impose my will on anyone, but let’s standardize for better mesh interoperability.
73
Phillip Beall (W5EBC)
All,
One note: Even with both devices set to LONG FAST, one was set to slot 0 (zero) and the other was on slot 20. Please don’t get bogged down with what it means, just get them harmonized. I picked 20. We can decide as a group later if we want to harmonize that, but for now both of ours are set to LONG FAST and slot 20. They see each other and can text each other just fine.
Tomorrow (Monday) Kathy and I are getting a couple of these: 2 Set ESP32 LoRa V3 Development Board with 915MHz Antenna + 3000mAh Battery + Meshtastic Case, ESP32-S3 SX1262 Integrated WiFi Bluetooth OLED Display for Arduino LoRaWAN IOT (N32, Blue) ($74.99).
We are mixing and matching hardware and so far it is working fine.
73
Phillip Beall (W5EBC)
Reference Beam antennas and ERP.
Effective Radiated Power (ERP) is a standardized measure of the directional radio frequency (RF) power emitted by a transmitting antenna system. It is defined as the total power that would have to be radiated by a theoretical half-wave dipole antenna to produce the same signal strength (power flux density) at a distant receiver as the actual antenna system in the direction of its strongest beam.
ERP accounts for the entire transmission chain, calculated by taking the transmitter output power, subtracting losses from transmission lines and connectors, and multiplying the result by the antenna’s gain relative to a half-wave dipole.
The calculation is expressed as:
ERP=Pin×Gd
Where:
$P_{\text{in}}$ is the power supplied to the antenna (transmitter output minus line losses).
$G_{d}$ is the antenna gain relative to a half-wave dipole.
In decibel terms, this is often simplified to:ERP (dBm)=Pt,dBm+Gd,dBd−lossesdB
All,
OK, I finally found the time to model the latitudes/longitudes of the locations I wanted to use as theoretical node locations. The map display shows the area we would cover, and its saturation, based on use of the locations to the right of each map. The first map is with those locations at 3 meters elevation. The second map adds the locations around the loop that I posted pictures about and their simulation was run at 10 meters elevation. As you can see, we would have saturation coverage of all, or almost all, of Lamar County with 21 nodes. My initial estimate was 25-30 would generally get the entire Red River Valley area of operations and I think this modeling validates that. The farthest yellow spots, northwest and northeast, are the Beall’s and Cliff Leath (KI5OPP), respectively.
73
Phillip Beall (W5EBC)
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